#1
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Àíòèáèîòèêè è íàðóøåíèå èììóííîãî îòâåòà
Öèòàòà:
Âû æå âðà÷! Ñëåäèòå çà ôîðìóëèðîâêàìè, ïîæàëóéñòà! |
#2
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Âû òî æå âðîäå áû ñ Âûøèì îáðàçîâàíèåì è oòíîñèòåñü ê èíòèëëèãåíöèè : âåäèòå ñåáÿ êîððåêòíåå äàæå ñ êîëëåãàìè...
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] |
#3
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Öèòàòà:
.....À âåäü Âàñ òðåâîæíûå ðîäèòåëè áóäóò öèòèðîâàòü. Òàê è áóäóò ãîâîðèòü, ÷òî, ìîë, äîêòîð èç Èçðàèëÿ ñêàçàë, ÷òî ôëåìîêëàâ ñíèæàåò èìóíèòåò..... |
#4
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ïåðâîå ïîïàâøååñÿ- íå áóäó âñå ñòàòüè ïåðåñìàòðèâàòü:
Antibiotic treatment, besides being one of the greatest achievements in the history of medicine, results in disruption of intestinal microbial communities as collateral damage with long-term consequences after cessation of therapy (17). Many antibiotic compounds have been shown to render the host susceptible to infection by several pathogens including Salmonella species (18), vancomycin-resistant Enterococcus spp. (19), and Clostridium difficile (20). C. difficile toxin-induced enterocolitis, for instance, represents one of the biggest antibiotics-related health-care problems with potentially fatal outcome (20). Remarkably, even short-term application of antimicrobial compounds such as clindamycin induces long-lasting decreases in enteric microbial diversity and renders mice susceptible to C. difficile colonization and infection Ëå÷åíèå àíòèáèîòèêàìè, ïîìèìî òîãî, ÷òî ÿâëÿåòñÿ îäíèì èç âåëè÷àéøèõ äîñòèæåíèé â èñòîðèè ìåäèöèíû, ïðèâîäèò ê ðàçðóøåíèþ êèøå÷íûõ ìèêðîáíûõ ñîîáùåñòâ êàê ïîáî÷íîå ïîâðåæäåíèå ñ äîëãîñðî÷íûìè ïîñëåäñòâèÿìè ïîñëå ïðåêðàùåíèÿ òåðàïèè.Áûëî ïîêàçàíî, ÷òî ìíîãèå àíòèáèîòèêè äåëàþò õîçÿèíà ÷óâñòâèòåëüíûì ê èíôåêöèè íåñêîëüêèìè ïàòîãåííûìè ìèêðîîðãàíèçìàìè, âêëþ÷àÿ âèäû Salmonella,óñòîé÷èâûå ê âàíêîìèöèíó Enterococcus spp. è Clostridium difficile . Íàïðèìåð, âûçâàííûé òîêñèíîì ýíòåðîêîëèò C. difficile ïðåäñòàâëÿåò ñîáîé îäíó èç ñàìûõ ñåðüåçíûõ ïðîáëåì çäðàâîîõðàíåíèÿ, ñâÿçàííûõ ñ àíòèáèîòèêàìè, ñ ïîòåíöèàëüíî ëåòàëüíûì èñõîäîì .Ïðèìå÷àòåëüíî, ÷òî äàæå êðàòêîâðåìåííîå ïðèìåíåíèå ïðîòèâîìèêðîáíûõ ñîåäèíåíèé, òàêèõ êàê êëèíäàìèöèí, âûçûâàåò äëèòåëüíîå óìåíüøåíèå ðàçíîîáðàçèÿ êèøå÷íûõ ìèêðîáîâ è äåëàåò ìûøåé âîñïðèèì÷èâûìè ê êîëîíèçàöèè è èíôåêöèè C. difficile |
#5
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Öèòàòà:
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#6
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Ìîè îòâåòû ïðåäíàçíà÷åíû áûëè äëÿ êîíêðåòíîãî ðîäèòåëÿ è åñëè Âû õîòèòå îáñóäèòü òåìó äèñáèîçà è âëèÿíèÿ àíòèáèîòèêîâ íà èììóíèò íà âðà÷åáíîì óðîâíå ñ âðà÷àìè, ìîæíî ýòî îáñóäèòü â äðóãîì ìåñòå, äëÿ ýòîãî åñòü Ôîðóì äëÿ îáùåíèÿ âðà÷åé ïåäèàòðîâ .Òàì ôîðìóëèðîâêè áóäóò áîëåå ïðîôåññèîíàëüíûå.Íà êîíñóëüòàòèâíîì ôîðóìå ñòàðàåìñÿ ãîâîðèòü ïîíÿòíûì äëÿ íåñïåöèàëèñòîâ â ìåäèöèíå ÿçûêå ïî ìåðå âîçìîæíîñòè è ñïîñîáíîñòè
Âîïðîñ áûë î íåîïðàâäàííîì øèðîêîì èñïîëüçîâàíèè àíòèáèîòèêîâ øèðîêîãî ñïåêòðà â ñëó÷àå ñòðåïòîêîêêîâîé àíãèíû êîíêðåòíî è ïðåèìóùåñòâà íàçíà÷åíèÿ àíòèáèîòèêîâ áîëåå óçêîãî ñïåêòðà äåéñòâèÿ â ýòî êîíêðåòíîì ñëó÷àå.Íå äóìàþ, ÷òî ó âðà÷åé è ðîäèòåëåé åñòü ñîìíåíèÿ,÷òî êîãäà àíòèáèîòèêè ïîêàçàíû, ïîëüçà îò íèõ ãîðàçäî âûøå âîçìîæíûõ ïîáî÷íûõ ýôôåêòîâ, íî íåîïðàâäàííîå øèðîêå íàçíà÷åíèå ëþáûõ àíòèáèîòèêîâ (à øèðîêîãî ñïåêòðà, "ò.í. ñèëüíûõ" àíòèáèîòèêîâ òåì áîëåå) -âåðîÿòíîñòü âðåäà âûøå . .  ìîåì ïîíèìàíèè è â ïîíèìàíèè ðîäèòåëåé, ÿ äóìàþ : Èììóíèòåò - ýòî ñïîñîáíîñòü îðãàíèçìà çàùèùàòü ñåáÿ. Èììóíèòåò – çàùèòíûé ìåõàíèçì îðãàíèçìà, êîòîðûé ïðîòèâîñòîèò âíåøíèì ôàêòîðàì, à èíîãäà è è èõ âîçáóäèòåëÿì: ìèêðîáàì, âèðóñàì.è äð.èíîðîäíûì ôàêòîðàì è èíîãäà è âíóòðåííèì ôàêòîðàì ,íàðóøàþùèì âíóòðåííåå ðàâíîâåñèå îðãàíèçìà è ïðèâîäÿùèå ê çàáîëåâàíèÿì. Î òîì , ÷òî ìíîãèå àíòèáèîòèêè äåëàþò õîçÿèíà ÷óâñòâèòåëüíûì ê èíôåêöèè íåê ïàòîãåííûìè ìèêðîîðãàíèçìàìè- ñòàòüÿ âûøå.Èç äðóãîé ñòàòüè :Ëå÷åíèå àíòèáèîòèêàìè, î÷åâèäíî ïðèâîäèò ê èçìåíåíèÿì â ñîñòàâå êèøå÷íîé ìèêðîáèîòû....íåäàâíåå èññëåäîâàíèå âûÿâèëî ñâÿçü ìåæäó âîçäåéñòâèåì àíòèáèîòèêîâ øèðîêîãî ñïåêòðà äî 2 ëåò è äåòñêèì îæèðåíèåì, àñòìîé è äð..[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ][Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] |
#7
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Öèòàòà:
Ïîïðîøó íàøó ïåðåïèñêó ìîäåðàòîðîâ óáðàòü èç òåìû è ïåðåíåñòè â ôîðóì äëÿ âðà÷åé |
#8
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Âûíåñ îáñóæäåíèå âîïðîñà â îòäåëüíóþ òåìó, êðîìå ðèñêà àíòèáèîòèê-àññîöèèðîâàííîé äèàðåè èëè êëîñòðèäèàëüíîãî ýíòåðîêîëèòà, ÷ðåçìåðíîå èñïîëüçîâàíèå àíòèáèîòèêîâ â ïåðâûå ãîäû æèçíè ðåáåíêà àññîöèèðóþòñÿ ñ ðèñêîì âîçíèêíîâåíèÿ àëëåðãè÷åñêèõ çàáîëåâàíèé, âåñü ïðåäûäóùèé ýâèäåíñ ñóììèðîâàí â äèñêóññèîííîé ÷àñòè äàííîé ñòàòüè, ÷òî ðàñïîëîæåíà â ñâîáîäíîì äîñòóïå ïî ññûëêå âíèçó, à âîçìîæíûå ìåõàíèçìû ýòîãî íà óðîâíå èììóííîé ñèñòåìû âûäåëþ çäåñü íèæå:
...we could not show how exposures to antibiotics played a role in the later development of allergic diseases compared with other studies. A birth cohort study in Finland found that taking antibiotics altered and led to less diversity in the gut microbiota.[21], [22] In addition, the study found it took a long time for microbiota to recover from exposure to antibiotics.21 In mice, the gut microbiota regulates the immune system of several types of T cells.[23], [24] Cahenzli et al25 indicated that appropriate gut microbiota was important for protecting against immunoglobulin E induction. Microbiota altered by antibiotic exposure can compromise the immune system, leading to the development of allergic diseases. In a mouse model, mice treated with kanamycin during infancy showed a decrease in the production of interleukin (IL)-12, which regulates the maturation of T-helper type (TH) TH1 cells, and led to TH2-polarized immune deviation.26 Similarly, adding moxifloxacin to human monocytes decreased IL-8, IL-1β, and tumor necrosis factor-α secretion,27 suggesting that suppressing the TH1 response could polarize the immune system toward a TH2 response. --- Influence of antibiotic use in early childhood on asthma and allergic diseases at age 5 [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#9
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Õîòåë áû ïîðîñèòü äîêòîðà Rotem è äðóãèõ âðà÷åé íå äåëàòü â êîíñóëüòàòèâíîì ðàçäåëå äëÿ ðîäèòåëåé çàìå÷àíèÿ âðà÷àì,òåì áîëåå "êðàñíûì",à ïîëüçîâàòñÿ îáðàùååíèåì â Ëè÷êó", â îòäåë îáñóæäåíèÿ äëÿ âðà÷åé èëè,êîãäà "ïîêðàñíååòå"(ÿ íå ïðîòèâ) â ñêðûòîé ÷àñòè ôîðóìà.Òåì áîëåå òàêèå Ýìîöèîíàëüíûå çàìå÷àíèÿ...Âñå ðàâíî, ÷òî ê Âàì çàéòè â êàáèíåò âî âðåìÿ ïðèåìà, çàãëÿíóòü â êàðòó áîëüíîãî è ñêàçàòü: "òû ÷òî,ñîâñåì îôèãåë..".Åñòü çàìå÷àíèÿ,ìîæåì îáñóäèòü ñ êîëëåãàìè...
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#10
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Ïî ìîåìó ìíåíèþ, èììóíèòåò - íàñòîëüêî ñëîæíàÿ è ìàëîèçó÷åííàÿ ôóíêöèÿ îðãàíèçìà, ÷òî âîîáùå íå ñòîèò óïîìèíàòü åå âñóå.
Íàïðèìåð, âñåãäà ñ÷èòàëîñü (äà è, â îáùåì-òî, äîêàçàíî), ÷òî ìàêðîëèäû èììóíèòåò ñòèìóëèðóþò - ïîâûøàþò àêòèâíîñòü, õåìîòàêñèñ è ôàãîöèòîç íåéòðîôèëîâ (Ë.Ñ.Ñòðà÷óíñêèé, Ñ.Í.Êîçëîâ [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]). Íî äèñáèîç è êëîñòðèäèàëüíûé êîëèò îíè òîæå ìîãóò ïðîâîöèðîâàòü - òî åñòü, ãîâîðÿ Âàøèìè, Ýäóàðä, ñëîâàìè - ñíèæàòü èììóíèòåò. Âîçâðàùàÿñü ê íà÷àëó äèñêóññèè - ëå÷åíèþ ñòðåïòîêîêêîâîãî ôàðèíãèòà, ìîæíî áû áûëî ïðîñòî ñêàçàòü, ÷òî êëàâóëàíîâàÿ êèñëîòà â îòíîøåíèè ñòðåïòîêîêêîâ íè÷åãî íå äîáàâëÿåò àìîêñèöèëëèíó, êðîìå âîçìîæíûõ ïîáî÷íûõ ýôôåêòîâ. |
#11
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â ïðèíöèïå ,ïðèìåðíî òîæå áûëî ó ìåíÿ â îòâåòå â òåìå:[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
ïðåäïî÷òèòåëüíåå àìîêñèöèëëèí ïî íåñê.ïðè÷èíàì: 1.áîëåå óçêîãî ñïåêòðà (íî ñòðåïòîêîêê îñòàåòñÿ ÷óâñòâèòåëåí ê íåìó) è ìåíüøå ïîáî÷íûõ ðåàêöèé ïðèìåðíî =êëàâóëàíîâàÿ êèñëîòà â îòíîøåíèè ñòðåïòîêîêêîâ íè÷åãî íå äîáàâëÿåò àìîêñèöèëëèíó, êðîìå âîçìîæíûõ ïîáî÷íûõ ýôôåêòîâ. 2.ôëåìîêëàâ áîëåå øèðîêîãî ñïåêòðà è çíà÷èòåëüíî ñèëíåå óíè÷òîæàåò óñëîâíî- ïàòîãåíóþ è ñàïðîôèòíóþ ôëîðó êèøå÷íèêà, âûçûâàåò äèñáèîç ( ïî ñòàðîì ïîíÿòèÿì- äèñáàêòåðèîç), áîëåå âûðàæåííî ñíèæàåò èììóíèòåò 3.÷àñòîå è íåîïðàâäàííîå íàçíà÷åíèå àíòèáèîòèêîâ øèðîêîãî ñïåêòðà äåéñòâèÿ óâåëè÷èâàåò óñòîé÷èâîñòü ìèêðîîðãàíèçìîâ ê íèì è óìåíüøàåò äî ïîëíîãî îòñóòâèÿ âëèÿíèÿ äàííîãî ÀÁ , à íåðåäêî è äðóãèõ ÀÁ,íà ìèêðîá â îáû÷íûõ,çàòåì è âûñîêèõ äîçàõ è íåîáõîäèìîñòü èçîáðåòåíèÿ íîâûõ àíòèáèîòèêîâ øèðîêîãî ñïåêòðà è âñå ïîñëåäñâèÿ ñåãî... Ñîãëàøóñü ñ ìíåíèåì, ÷òî "èììóíèòåò - íàñòîëüêî ñëîæíàÿ è ìàëîèçó÷åííàÿ ôóíêöèÿ îðãàíèçìà, ÷òî âîîáùå íå ñòîèò óïîìèíàòü åå âñóå",ìîæåò ñòîèò îáõîäèòñÿ áîëåå îáòåêàåìûìè ôðàçàìè, òèïà " ñíèæåíèå çàùèòíûõ ôóíêöèé îðãàíèçìà", ó÷èòûâàÿ òåì áîëåå ðàñïðîñòðàíåíîñòü ïñåâäîèììóíîäåôèöèòîâ è äèñáàêòåðèîçîâ íà ïðîñòîðàõ áûâøåãî ÑÍÃ(ìîæåò îò ñåãî ïðåäîñòåðåãàëà ìåíÿ äð Rotem, íî âåñüìà ñâîåîáðàçíî...).Äåéñòâèòåëüíî, ìàêðîëèäû ñòèìóëèðóþò èììóíèòåò( ñ÷èòàåòñÿ äîêàçàíî íà ñåãîäí.äåíü), íî ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû èçâåñòíî èõ îòð.âëèÿíèå íà äèñáèîç ðàçâèòèå óñòîé÷èâîñòè ê íèì áîëüøå , ÷åì ó ïåíèöèëëèíîâ. Ëþáîå íàøå âìåøàòåëüñòâî âëèÿåò íà "çàùèòíûå ôóíêöèè îðãàíèçìà" : ïàðàöåòàìîë - íà íåñê.÷àñîâ ( ïî ýòîìó íå ðåêîìåíäóþò ñïåøèòü ñáèâàòü òåìïåðàòóðó),ñòåðîèäû - âçàâèñèìîñòè îò äëèòåëüíîñòè ïðèìåíåíèÿ è äîçû(ïðè 2 íåäåëüíîì êóðñå áîëüøèìè äîçàìè- ìåä îòâîä îò ïðèâèâîê êîðü êðàñíóõè- âåòðÿíêè -ïàðîòèòà) .Ó àíòèáèîòèêîâ âëèÿíèå ÷åðåç äð.ìåõàíèçìû( âëèÿíèå íà ìèêðîôëîðó)-íî ïîñëåäâèÿ è ïðîäîëæèòåëüíîñòü âëèÿíèÿ çàâèñÿò îò ìíîãèõ ôàêòîðîâ( îñîáåííîñòü ðåáåíêà, îñîáåííîñòü àíòèáèîòèêà è ò.ï.) |
#12
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Öèòàòà:
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